Ground Zero

We have begun a study of Revelation, and we’re excited about it. Today, we are in Episode 2,  talking about the topic of Ground Zero. When we look at Ground Zero defined, we think of it as the very beginning of something or square one, maybe the center where a bomb or an explosion takes place.  Today, we are looking at the city of Jerusalem and even more precisely the Temple Mount as a Ground Zero of sorts. It is where the followers of Jehovah God gathered.   Their place of sacrifice and worship. We’re going to look at that place as a place marked by God.  

Hear the words in Psalm 132:13-14:

For the Lord has chosen Jerusalem; He has desired it for His home. “This is My resting place forever,” He said. “I will live here, for this is the home I desired.”

Transcript

Season 3:  The End: A Revelation Study

Episode 2:  Ground Zero

Show Notes

Intro:

Hello. This is ReGina Johnston, your podcast host.

Welcome to Origin where we look at current events through the filter of a pre-supposition that there is a plan A, an original plan, that gives context and clarity when it comes to present-day “elephants in the room.”  We are women of different seasons with different stories daring to talk about the tensions of the day.  This is season 3 of Origin and we are stepping into a series we are calling The End: A Revelation Study.  Join us for a conversation among friends.  Sharing real life fears and concerns with truths we’ve learned along the way. It’s a little messy, but always good. 

Who we are:

ReGina Johnston

Kyli Rose

Jina McAfee

Glennis Lamm, Guest

We are already back at the table of Origin. That was a fast turnaround for us. You won’t experience it, but we have. The summer is going fast and furious. We are at the table with my friends, Kyli Rose and Jina McAfee. My name is ReGina Johnston. Today we have a special guest with us. I think it is her very first time to be with us at the table of Origin. We welcome Glennis Lamm. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Glennis: I have been attending Bethel for quite a while now. I have some degrees in Bible and specifically in archeology. I specialize in Jerusalem and ancient studies. That is what I bring to the table today. 

ReGina: Archeology. Digs. Historic things. I bet that’s exciting. I have never been on an archeological dig before. Have you Glennis?

Glennis: I have, three separate times. I have worked two sites that were older, and I have worked one that was during the time of Christ. 

ReGina: Is it boring until it’s not?

Glennis: No, it’s entertaining. I get to play in the dirt and talk with people and eat food and find coins and pottery. There is always something exciting happening.

ReGina: I would have to wear gloves. I cannot stand for dirt to get under my fingernails. I used to work in the Anthropology Department at Texas A&M. That was interesting. I learned so much from the people around me. 

Today, we are going to talk about The End. We have started this study of Revelation, and we’re excited about it. Today, we are in Episode 2 and we will talk about the topic of Ground Zero. Here is the reason why. When we look at Ground Zero defined, we think of it as the very beginning of something or square one, maybe the center where a bomb or an explosion takes place. Kyli, I have heard you tell stories about your kids’ bedrooms after company has come over, and I’m thinking Ground Zero may be a good explanation for what happens there. I looked it up and one of the very first times this term began to actually catch on was during 1946 when it became a much-used media term for Hiroshima. Isn’t that interesting? We’ve chosen to use it today. I know one of the most famous spots termed Ground Zero is the 9/11 Memorial. I’ve been there. Have any of you been there? You’ve been there Glennis?

Glennis: Yes.

ReGina: What did you experience when you were there?

Glennis: I was there before the memorial went up. I was there when they were still cleaning. It was very somber, very sobering.

ReGina: Did you leave with any messages? Did you feel like it was impactful?

Glennis: I was a young freshman at the time. I had lived through 9/11 and gone to Washington DC. I saw the Pentagon right after it was hit too. It was very fresh and sobering—what a big deal it was to our lives. 

Kyli: There became a distinction between life pre 9/11 and post 9/11.

ReGina: I heard the term Ground Zero used even during COVID for the nursing home situation in New York—the breakout of COVID in the nursing homes where so many elderly people passed away. It was life altering. Today, we are looking at the city of Jerusalem and even more precisely the Temple Mount as a Ground Zero of sorts. It is where the followers of Jehovah God—the one true God, the “unknown God” that the Grecians had the idol to—gathered, their place of sacrifice and worship. We’re going to look at that place as a place marked by God. Jina, we have a Scripture that we’re launching from today. I wondered if you would share that with us regarding Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. And, then, share your experience having been there.

Jina: We’re looking at Psalm 132:13-14:

For the Lord has chosen Jerusalem; He has desired it for His home. “This is My resting place forever,” He said. “I will live here, for this is the home I desired.”

You can hear God’s thoughts about Jerusalem. We went to Israel, to Jerusalem, to the Temple Mount in November of 2018. The day we went to the Temple Mount was impactful. It was somber as Glennis said. It was heavy. You could feel the battle that was going on there. People are battling. Spiritual forces are battling over this land, this spot. My husband and I were walking and holding hands there, and guards came and told us, “No, you can’t hold hands here; that’s not respectful.” One of the other girls in our group was dancing before the Lord. You couldn’t do that. There was no freedom there. Just to realize the hallowedness of this piece of land that people have fought over is impactful.

ReGina: I heard multiple languages while we were there. There was a palpable sense that this was hallowed ground, but it is hallowed to more than just Christians. Other people call it their hallowed ground as well. There was a sense that there was something different about this ground we were on. The Temple Mount has history that goes way back. It is not like the homes we build here in Texas today, built to possibly withstand a tornado. We’re talking about way back. I look at some of the buildings we would go into while visiting Jerusalem and realize that they were built with stay-power and even knowing that, to know what happened to the Temple years after its building. So, the Temple Mount has history. Kyli, can you share some of the historic things that happened on that land according to the Bible?

Kyli: There is so much going on in Revelation that you almost wonder, “Why the Temple Mount?” But we see God activity from the very beginning of time. We need to dial in and pay attention to that. It should matter to us because this place mattered a lot to Him. 

·      We see it in the very beginning in Genesis with the arrival of Melchizedek. Melchizedek was the priest, the king of Salem, the one who blessed Abraham, the one Abraham tithed to. According to Hebrews 7, “he remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.”  (Ge 14:18-20; He 7:1-4)

·      Abraham was prepared to offer up his son, Isaac, on the Temple Mount (Ge 22:9-12)

·      Also referred to as Mount Moriah which means “Chosen by Yahweh.” Because He chose it, that is why we are talking about it today

·      King David purchased the Temple Mount from Ornan/Araunah to build an altar (1Ch 21:1-27)

·      Solomon constructed the Temple on the Temple Mount (2Ch 7:5, 12-16)

So, it goes way back to the opening pages of Scripture. It is rich in history.

ReGina: I looked up a little bit about the altar that David built there. First of all, know David sinned. He sinned greatly. He counted the people which meant he was counting on something rather than counting on God, counting on a number rather than counting on God, counting on human ability rather than counting on God. How many times can we say that we’ve done that?

Kyli: It was a way of saying, “These people belong to me.” It was like he was saying, “I am counting mypeople.” They were never his people. They were God’s people. It was taking ownership of something that didn’t belong to him.

ReGina: As part of his penance, he offered a sacrifice there. Interesting that years later, that would become a place where people offered sacrifice after sacrifice after sacrifice. The blood ran freely from the animal sacrifices. David offered a sacrifice there and said basically, “I repent, but I’m not going to build an altar here without paying for the ground.” Ornan was offering the threshing floor to him as a gift. (A threshing floor is a place where the chaff is separated from the wheat.) David says, “I’m not going to take that and give it to the Lord when it costs me nothing.” Sacrifice costs something. 

The history of the Temple Mount is rich, very rich. It is not just the land that has history. There are things about the Temple historically from the Bible. It’s not just about the land, but also about the Temple. Let’s have a discussion about the history regarding the Temple.

Jina: I just love that David so wanted to build a permanent place for God to dwell even though he knew that God was bigger than a human dwelling place. He wanted to honor the Lord, but God told him, “No, you can’t do that because your life has been a life of war and blood. This is holy. Your son Solomon can do that.” David’s heart is evident. He purchased and gathered gold and silver and brass and wood and fabrics. He did everything he could to prepare for the building of the Temple.

Kyli: This place, Glennis, has significance to you. Your heart is intertwined to this part of the world. I think sometimes as westerners it is hard for us to understand. What would you add to the rich history?

Glennis: As Protestants, I don’t think we understand when it comes to holy, sacred space. God is everywhere. He is present everywhere. We believe that. We experience that. But I don’t think I would be out of line to say that there are areas where the veil is a little thinner, and Jerusalem is one of those places. Galilee is another place. It shows the significance to God in that He keeps bringing His people back to a place where He is wanting to intervene for sacrifice. This is the spot where Abraham is supposed to be sacrificing Isaac. It comes up over and over again, “Do you trust My provision? Do you trust that I have a place for your nation even when it gets destroyed in 586 BC and they are taken into captivity?” They keep getting brought back to the same exact location. 

ReGina: Isn’t that interesting? We keep coming back to Ground Zero, Ground Zero, Ground Zero.

Glennis: People try to dismiss it as just a place, but in reality, it’s not. Without bringing people there to actually experience it firsthand, it is hard to communicate. There is a culmination of culture and religion there. 

Aliyah – the biblical term for the Jewish act of returning to the Land of Israel, was adopted from the ancient event as the definitive modern term for the immigration of diaspora Jews to the State of Israel.

You have Jews from Russia, Poland, the Netherlands, everywhere, coming back with their own twist on their faith, but they all come back, even Christians coming back. It’s still a place of significance. It’s still a place that is doing something for people and they can’t get pulled away from it. 

Jina: And especially during this time, it’s happening. That is so interesting.

ReGina: What else historically do we see about the Temple?

Kyli: We saw David prepare for the Temple and his son Solomon build it. We see how it is destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. We see a second Temple that was not nearly as grand. We read this account in Ezra 3. That story is interesting how there was a mixture of Jews who had never seen the Temple and those who had seen the previous Temple. You couldn’t tell if people were weeping out of sorrow or out of joy. There was a cacophony of sound. 

Jina: It was probably both—sorrow and joy. We do that. One thing that stands out to me is that God uses a Persian king, King Cyrus, who isn’t even a follower of God. Even though he is not a follower of God, he knew God was the God and that God had appointed him to build the Temple. He allows the Jews to return, and he asks his own citizens to give towards the building of the Temple. (Ezra 1:2-4)

ReGina: Then, there was a great resistance to the building of the Temple, and there has been to this very day. Any kind of advancement towards rebuilding, restoring, reinhabiting has been met with great resistance. It is more than people. There’s an enemy resisting that because it belongs to God, because it’s His, because He stamps His name on that place. There’s great resistance. We can see too according to our notes that Herod the Great added to the Temple. Then, that was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. Pretty much, that is where we are today; however, there on that Temple Mount, there sits something called the Dome of the Rock. That’s a Muslim gathering place. It is not even Christian or Jewish territory right now. It doesn’t belong to Christians or Jews. It belongs to Muslims. But we know that someday, Jesus will walk through the Eastern Gate and there again, He will be in the midst of what is called the Temple Mount, in the midst of the Temple, in the Holy of Holies. We know that’s coming. We don’t know exactly when. Kyli, do you have the date?

Kyli: No. I didn’t pencil that one in.

ReGina: I don’t have it in my calendar either. We don’t exactly when, but there are signs. We talked about some of those last week, and we will be talking about some of those signs in weeks to come. There are signs that indicate in general where we are on the time clock. I believe we can sense that we are drawing near. 

Let’s talk about prophetic events, future events, regarding the Temple. Tell me what you know.

Jina: I know that in the end times, during the Tribulation, there will be a covenant of peace that Antichrist who rises up will make with Israel, and sacrifices will be reestablished in the first 3 ½ years. It is thought that the Temple will be rebuilt during that time and that mid-point, 3 ½ years into the Tribulation, Daniel talks about it, Jesus refers to it in Matthew, Antichrist will set himself up as god in the Temple. He sets himself up in the Temple of God as god. That doesn’t quite work. Then, all hell breaks loose. There is a lot of activity—battles, wrath, and judgment—that come during that time. 

Kyli: In that time, there will be two witnesses. We don’t know exactly who they are, but we know that they evangelize. God always has a witness. We see these two witnesses minister; many will respond; many will choose to walk away. They will be killed, and then they will be resurrected.

Jina: The wild thing to me is that the whole world will watch. When I was a little girl, all week long, we saw the funeral of President Kennedy, coverage all week. There could be days and days of seeing these two witnesses in real time. It boggles my mind. When this was written, there was no conception of the ability for the whole world to know what is going on in real time.

ReGina: The Antichrist will rise up, the opposing Christ. He’ll proclaim himself as god. It is interesting that he would do that in the city of God. It’s a mockery, an absolute mockery. It makes sense that if God circled back to the same place historically that He will circle back there today, He will circle back there in the future. We may not know exactly how He is going to do it, but it has been His pattern. He declared that land His land, the land for His people. Even though we have broadened the thought process of the Temple. Yes, we are the Temple of Holy Spirit, but there is still a land that is not just any land, as Glennis said. It is special. It is holy. What else do we see about the Temple in the future? Antichrist rises up, but what’s next?

Glennis: Jesus will reestablish His throne there which is a lot easier said than done especially since it says in Scripture, “He will come through the East Gate which is the Golden Gate.” Muslims have done their absolute best to make sure that won’t happen. They have blocked it off. It is completely bricked in. Not only that, they have put in front of it a very old Muslim cemetery because no proper Jewish man would make himself unclean going to Temple by going through a cemetery. For Jesus to come through the East Gate and establish His throne there, a lot of things would have to supernaturally take place.

ReGina: One thing I know about Biblical history is that Jesus was put behind a stone at one point, and it did not keep Him from coming out of the grave. Just the idea that people think they have to put obstacles in the way makes me think that they may think this is real.

Kyli: Slap a gate up there just in case.

Glennis: My Muslim friends truly believe that He is a prophet but they do not believe that He died and was resurrected. They thought that was a smoke and mirror type thing and that Allah will send Him back down for a final moment. They don’t believe He is God, they don’t have that stance, but still, just in case.

ReGina: It may be the establishment of His throne that will be the thing that causes them to do what the Bible says everyone will do at some point—every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Ph 2:10-11). It’s going to happen. And it’s not just some day far off in the future, pie in the sky, story-telling idealism. It’s real. It’s going to happen. 

Jina: The events could be set into motion any time now.

ReGina: Some believe the world will end there at the conclusion of Jesus’ 1,000-year rule when Satan will lead the nations in an attempt to kill Jesus again. But we know what is really going to happen. We know what the end of Satan is and that story. We know that at that point new heavens and new earth are formed. The world as we know it will end. It’s the end of the world as we know it. A new heaven and a new earth will be formed.

In Episode 1, we kept asking this question, “What time is it?” With that question in mind, I want us to look at the Temple Mount presently. What is going on there today?

Kyli: We see that Jews pray openly on the Temple Mount. The Jerusalem Post states: “While there has been no official change in the Israeli government’s policy, Jews now pray there on a regular basis.” 

Jina: The number of Jews visiting the Temple Mount has almost tripled in the last 5 years. Jews are returning to Israel and Jerusalem in huge numbers.

Glennis: That was a movement that happened, part of the Zionist Movement in ’45, to reestablish Hebrew as an actual active language but also to allow people to make Aliyah return. Trips like birthright giving kids with Jewish descent a free trip to Israel with the idea that they will want to make Aliyah. That is something that has been a process since ’45.

ReGina: Just in the past few years, an embassy was established in Jerusalem, was it not. It was a big deal. There is talk of taking that away now and moving that, but we’ll see. We’ll see what happens. I believe it’s a sign that things are headed back in that direction to a valuing of the land as an Israeli piece of land and more so, as a Christian’s piece of land, as a believer’s piece of land. It’s going to be interesting to see how things unfold in the next little bit there. I think poised for battle too are some countries stationed around and near Israel. We were talking about that just the other day weren’t we. 

Jina: Yes, Russia and Iran for sure and maybe a couple of others. Is Turkey involved in that?

Glennis: Turkey always likes to have a part of that show. Actively Israel has enemies at all times. When I was there in 2014, there were about three different countries involved in the stand off that was happening at that time. 

Jina: On our flight leaving Israel in November of 2018, we heard that fighting had broken out in the Gaza strip. It was right as we were leaving, and it was ominous. 

Glennis: I was there when the four boys were kidnapped and killed. I was there for the bombings. It was the first time that missiles had reached Jerusalem. There is resilience in the Israeli people that they still carry on life in the midst of battle. I remember walking with friends there, an alarm went off, we all went to the shelter together, we holed down, we counted off the time and went back with our normal life. 

ReGina: It’s inconceivable that it would be that volatile, and there has to be a reason for that as well. That alone should cause people to stand up and take notice. There is something more than it just being somebody’s land. There’s something more to it. There are spiritual forces behind it. There’s an enemy that wants this land for his own, that wants to set up his throne and wants to declare himself as God.

There are some promises or covenants between God and His people over this land. Let’s talk about what some of those are.

Kyli: We see in Deuteronomy how the Lord says He will choose a dwelling for His name. The name Jerusalem literally means “possession of peace,” which is so interesting given what we were just talking about. It almost seems void of peace. He has actually already stamped it. It is His.

Glennis: The word peace actually means wholeness in Hebrew. It’s not only that there will be peace there, but there will be completion and wholeness, being in the middle of God’s will. 

ReGina: God made promises to Abraham over this land. Even to Joshua. What did He say to Joshua? 

Jina: He said, “Be strong and courageous. You must bring the people of Israel into the land I swore to give them…. I will be with you….I promise you what I promised Moses: ‘Wherever you set foot, you will be on land I have given you.’” (Js 1:6, 9, 3)

ReGina: Land God has given. And we think we can take it. This land God has given. And David captures the fortress of Zion, the city of David. The status for Jerusalem is hotly disputed. The ownership, the territory is hotly disputed. There is an everlasting covenant with Jerusalem in Ezekiel. Jina, do you have those verses?

Jina: I have Ezekiel 16:59-60. “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says, ‘I will give you what you deserve for you have taken your solemn vows lightly by breaking your covenant. Yet I will remember the covenant I made with you when you were young, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you.’”

ReGina: An everlasting covenant with you—that’s us too, with us. 

Jina: Get grafted in.

ReGina: With each Revelation discussion, we are asking ourselves, given what we know, “How do we live?” We started out saying basically there are two choices. One of the Scriptures we read to begin with says, “How long will you waver between these two choices?” That’s the question we’re asking today, “Given what we know about this sacred land, Ground Zero, the historic perspective, the present perspective, the future of this land, how do we live?” Things are happening in our society today that look like we could be closer, a lot closer, to the coming of the Lord than we were in previous years. I know that sounds like a pat thing to say, but there are a lot of signs happening, and we are the generation that has experienced so many of the signs in one generation. So, it could be. We know if a prophecy is true by whether it comes true. 

Jina: That’s what the Bible says.

ReGina: There is a prophecy regarding the pope and how many popes there will be from a certain time until the time of the return of Jesus Christ. I was just hearing that this pope is about to resign and he was to be the last pope. I don’t know. There are people who believe that the Lord will return around certain feast days—Rosh Hashanah being the named feast season when He will return. It’s not just one day so we still wouldn’t know the time or the hour. But we would know the season. That makes sense to me because He wrote the story and a lot of historic things He did, He did around feast days. So, is it going to be this year? Rosh Hashanah is September 25-27 this year (2022). I don’t know. 

Given what we know about where our culture is today, where the church is today, where Jerusalem is today, where the Temple is today, and what’s going on at the Temple Mount, how do we live?

Jina: The Scripture tells us to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. One of the versions says, “May all who love this city prosper” (Ps 122:6). We need to align with Israel. We need to pray for Israel. We need to be withIsrael, for Israel. We will prosper if we do. Also, years ago, when I heard, “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem,” I felt like the Lord was saying, “Pray for their eyes to be opened, that they would know Me.” That is what makes for your peace. Knowing Him makes for your peace. 

Kyli: Looking at things on the surface, it’s so easy like we do with so many things, to say, “What does this country on the other side of the world have to do with me?” And we can just dismiss it. This challenges us to go to the Scripture and find all of the connecting points. You can’t not see them. They’re there. There is this urgency to get into the Word, this urgency to find connecting points and then to look with eyes wide open all around you and see them. God is connecting dots. It’s full circle. It should create a sense of urgency today. This very much connects to us in our day to day. We’ve really just scratched the surface today. Let this be a launching point. Go and study it out, see that so many of these things have already happened, are happening and will happen. That should just wake us up instead of us doing what we sometimes want to do and saying, “Like, oh that has nothing to do with me. I don’t even know where Jerusalem is on a map. Why in the world would I care?” You should.  We live awake. We live awake because we’re seeing these dots being connected through this one place specifically.

ReGina: Just as Jesus came to fulfill the law, not abolish it, also the coming of Jesus and the expanding of Christianity to Gentiles, to you and me, fulfills a greater people rather than diminishes the people He began with. He always had a plan for the gospel to go to the whole world. The Jews were going to be His mouthpiece to the rest of the world. They were going to be His chosen people to carry the gospel to the rest of the world. So, in that way, we’re forever linked. Because of that and because the land is special to Him, it should be special to us.

Glennis: I think it makes the whole Scripture come alive to a new level when you’re actually looking at it with an historical context. Yes, you can read it, and you can definitely get something out of it every time you go to it, but when you actually go back and start looking at the historical layers, it becomes this thing that is no longer a distance across the sea but a place where things are happening. Even beyond Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, it is a setting that can enrich a lot of the way we engage God. 

Jina: Beginning and end, you see it all the way through. It’s one story when you look at it. It’s amazing.

ReGina: I love the idea that He sent Abraham out looking for a land. He didn’t tell him where he was going but He definitely led him there. Then He gave him a promise there. Then all of these years later when it’s time for the Lord to return, it will culminate there. 

Kyli: He writes the best stories. It’s so full circle. Only God could have crafted something like that. It’s incredible. 

ReGina: How else do we live? We live in anticipation for His plan to unfold before our very eyes. Pay attention. Don’t go to sleep. Don’t be a sleeping church. Don’t be a sleeping people. Pay attention. Don’t get distracted with all the little things that can take our eyes off of the big picture. Be a part of the big picture. Realize we’re part of the story.

Kyli: Live with hope. The opening lines of this book say, “Happy is the one who reads this book” (Re 1:3 GNT). We know how this thing ends. We get to live eternally. We get so bogged down in the temporal. I was talking to someone who said, “The book is so dark.” But really, it’s so hope filled, so life filled. It’s so interesting how the enemy has twisted this particular book. God has called us to read it. He said, “I want you to study it out. Happy is the one who reads this book.” And so many people avoid it. They’re scared to read it. We can see how the enemy has even twisted the book itself. It’s something Christians hope in. Jesus is coming.

Jina: He gave it to us for a reason. Even like you said earlier, Kyli, we need to be a witness. If we share what we’re seeing, that will cause faith to rise up in other people. I believe it will awaken faith. When Israel became a nation and 70 years later to the day our embassy comes to Jerusalem, who else does that? Who but God? Who but God can do that?

Kyli: The invitation is still on the table. You can still say, “Yes!”

ReGina: But the time is now. Today is the day. Glennis, will you pray us out?

Glennis: God, we thank You for this time. We thank You that You’re the Master Crafter of Stories. You don’t leave us with hanging narratives even though we feel like we’re in the in-between. What I love is when we look at Genesis all the way to Revelation, You have a story of hope. You haven’t forgotten us. You had a plan to get us back. As we focus in on Jerusalem and the promises You have for us there, I pray that You open our eyes, that you make us look at Scripture differently and we would see Your handiwork through the whole process. We thank You, Father. In Your name, I pray. Amen.

ReGina: Thank you for joining us at the table of Origin today where we believe Jesus gave us a choice way back in the beginning of time, and we just encourage you to choose Him. 

Sources:

Bible Versions:

Good News Translation

New Living Translation

“Ground Zero” 2/09/2022, Glennis Lamm, www.bethele3.org

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